bible_study/Podcasts/Prophecy Pros/Season 2/S2E7: Convergence: Piecing Together the Puzzle.md

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Todd: Hey, today, we’re going to take a look at how everything is converging right in our day.

Jeff: All right, Todd, so today, we’re going to talk about how the events and the phenomenons that are going on in our world right now are really converging exactly as the Bible predicted that they would and how it’s really leading us to a place where we’re ramping up to Revelation and we don’t know exactly when the Rapture is going to happen, we talked about that in a previous episode, we don’t exactly when the tribulation is going to begin, we know how it begins, but all these things that are happening right now, Todd, that are going on in our world, both nationally and globally, seem to be all pointing in the same direction, and wow, what do you know? It’s exactly what the Bible said was going to happen.

Todd: It really is. When you bust out a thousand-piece puzzle to put together, you got to have that top of the puzzle box to look at to start to piece it together, and I don’t know about you, but for me, four or five years ago in particular, well, you’ve been studying about prophecy for a really long time, but for me, I started seeing that convergence with crystal clarity four or five years ago where what we’re seeing when we piece things together look a whole lot like the top of that puzzle box, and that has only continued, I mean, 2020, it’s like a convergence on steroids.

Jeff: It really is. Here’s the great thing I think about studying the Bible in general, but also Bible prophecy: I think about that scene in The Matrix where Neo, he’s at the point where he finally just realizes he’s the one and he’s able to see the matrix with his eyes, he can see behind the scenes of what no one else can see, and that’s really what the Bible does for us. I mean, it gives us wisdom. It gives us insight, gives us discernment so that we can look at the world around us and we don’t have to just stand around and scratch our heads or to cower in fear, like so many are doing. Believers have access and the Bible says we have the mind of Christ in us and the Holy Spirit in us, so we have the actual ability to see what’s happening in the world as we read it through the lens of the Scripture.

One of the things that we’re seeing right now, Todd, is this sense of lawlessness and of anarchy that’s really been sweeping our land right now. It’s almost like those fires in California, they’ve just been popping up different places, and then literal fires as a result of that, burning buildings down, burning businesses and that type of thing. I look at what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3 when he says, “But realize this, or know this, that in the last days, difficult times will come, for men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents.” He goes on to say, “unloving, irreconcilable, without self-control, they’re reckless, they’re conceited.”

What’s amazing to me is that I read those verses and I just look up and I see that in my world, I see it going on right now. People say, “Well, there’s been things like that in the past.” Yeah, but not in the last days, because these don’t necessarily mean we’re in the last days, but when you combine the fact that it’s happening right now with everything else that’s happening in the world, it all forms a picture, so it’s kind of like one piece of the puzzle doesn’t tell you much, but when you put more pieces together, a picture starts to form, doesn’t it?

Todd: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it really does, and like you said, yeah, we’ve had those things before, but the important thing with Bible prophecy in particular is the super sign is Israel becoming a nation again, so once that occurred, then you start paying attention: All right, what’s going on in the world? I would add here in America, where, and I’m guilty of this, too, we’re so America-focused that we often don’t realize even what’s going on in the rest of the world, but even with the lawlessness and rioting, if you do a little bit of research, you’ll find that that’s that’s happening, that that has spread all over the world, just like the virus did, and then also, there are other things we can look at.

Often when I’m talking to somebody about Bible prophecy, if they’re looking at me like a deer in the headlights and it seems either too overwhelming, or like I’m just grabbing a verse here and a verse there, what I usually say is, “Okay, pick one thing and study it for yourself.” For example, if somebody is just starting to study Bible prophecy and wants to know, “All right, what’s something I can look at that clearly shows last-days Bible prophecy forming in our day where I can really gauge it and look at it and study it?” I always point them to Ezekiel 38 because that’s the war of Gog and Magog, which you and I both believe happens after the Rapture, but we’re seeing the stage being set for that now, so if someone carefully studies Ezekiel, if you got time, Ezekiel 36-39, that talks about Israel becoming a nation again, and then about this war happening, but even just studying the details of Ezekiel 38 and the nations that are mentioned and the conditions and where they’re coming from, it lines up. You almost got to pinch yourself because it’s so perfectly aligned with what we see in the news right now.

Jeff: Yeah, it does. I mean, those same nations that were prophesied in Ezekiel are nations today that are all at odds with Israel, they all hate Israel, basically. It’s like once again, the Bible just keeps on getting it right every time. It’s like with archeology and science and everything else, the Bible always ends up on top, but you’re absolutely right, and so it’s a powder keg, it’s really a powder keg in formation. You think about this recent explosion here that happened several months back in Beirut, Lebanon, where I mean, everyone’s seen the video from that thing, but that’s exactly what’s brewing right now with these nations surrounding Israel, and if you want to find out what’s going to happen in that so-called battle, all you need to do is to read those chapters in Ezekiel 38 and 39, because it’s amazing what happens there.

But you’re right, Todd, those things are part of the convergence, they’re part of things that are going on right now. I think what happens sometimes, Todd, and you and I both seen this and we scratch our heads when it happens, but when things like, for example, the Trump peace plan with the United Arab Emirates, when that thing was announced, and there was all of a sudden, “Whoa, you mean these two nations are actually going to agree on some things, are going to open up flights and trade and that kind of thing?” People are going, “Whoa, this is it.” I had people sending me questions like, “Does this mean that we’re in the tribulation? Because the Bible does say there’s going to be this peace covenant with Israel. Is this the peace covenant?” I said, “Well, it’s not because that would mean Trump would be the Antichrist, or at least his son-in-law would be the Antichrist, and I don’t believe that that’s true.”

Then secondly, it would mean that we’re actually in the tribulation period, and of course, we’re not seeing any of those things happen as well. I think the peace plan that Daniel 9:27 talks about, that covenant is something going to be much greater and bring much more peace to the region than simply this tiny peace plan, but at the same time, Todd, it certainly does play into the fact that, number one, people are dying for reconciliation and peace and in that region.

Todd: That’s right.

Jeff: Then secondly, it certainly could be a piece to a puzzle that maybe the Antichrist could look back on and use as a precedent and build upon for his greater peace plan, but again, it’s like we keep seeing these hints, we keep seeing these things, so we don’t run to them and say, “This is fulfilled Bible prophecy,” but at the same time, we see them as foreshadowing of what’s actually going to happen, so I guess maybe a good way to look at it is say, “We need to distinguish between the false signs and the foreshadowing,” those are two separate things and we need to make sure that we understand that and that’s one of the reasons that we study the Bible so that we can distinguish those things.

Todd: That’s right, and actually, I’m glad you brought that up. The two questions I’ve gotten most recently within the past five months are: “Is the upcoming vaccine going to be the mark of the beast?” and “Is this agreement, either the peace agreement, or even this Abraham Accord thing, is that the Daniel 9:27 covenant?” and I’ve taken the same track in that I’ve said, “I mean, yes, we see the technology and the push for some kind of mark coming up and some of the technology that is out there right now lines up really closely with what the Bible talks about, but that all happens mid-trib, so we’re going to be long gone by then.” We see the stage setting for that or the foreshadows of it and things coming into place, just like we would expect to see, although that’s not going to be the actual mark because…

In other words, someone asked me, “Do I have to be afraid about taking the mark of the beast?” No, if you’re a believer, you’ll be out of here. Then the other thing is the Daniel 9:27 covenant, and actually, there’s a word in Daniel 9:27 that talks about the Antichrist will strengthen or finalize that agreement, so it does sound like perhaps there’s something on the table already that he adds to and makes it bigger, greater, and that kind of thing, but just the fact that people are talking about a Mideast peace deal or another example is just the fact that people have a desire that Jewish people, many Jewish people in Israel have a desire to start the temple sacrifices and that kind of thing again, that just blows my mind. When I first became a believer, that really tripped me up because I was like, “Nobody’s ever going to want to do sacrifices, that’s so old and archaic,” but here in our day, just like the Bible predicted you have a group of people who want to do that on the temple mount, which is needed for end-time Bible prophecy.

What about China, Jeff? I know revelation talks about the Kings of the East coming and a lot of people don’t realize that China rising to the power that it is is a new phenomenon. How does China or the Kings of the East fit into Bible prophecy?

Jeff: Well, China has become obviously a world superpower and they sit in a position where they have amassed a great stockpile of weapons and also just the ability to do other types of attacks, like for example, an electromagnetic pulse attack, which they’ve already tested out in lieu of doing that in the United States, and some people have speculated that after the Rapture, when the United States is greatly weakened, at that point, that’s when a nation like a China could come in with that type of attack, cripple our communications, cripple our electrical systems, and to be able to have some sort of takeover, or invasion, even, and so China is a major player.

Like you said, they’re part, I believe, of the Kings of the East that will be a part of Armageddon, and so even right now, secularists are keeping their eye on China. This is not even really a biblical thing, necessarily, but it’s just a world/geopolitical kind of thing where we’re watching China because we never know what China’s up to. We don’t know what China is going to do next, and of course, this whole thing with the virus that came out of China, I mean, there’s a lot of speculation there, and I won’t go there because there aren’t really any hard cold facts to prove different theories as of yet, but China is a major player, they’re going to be heard from in the Book of Revelation and the Tribulation Period, and so right now, it would make sense that China would be testing these things, testing these attacks out, and testing these theories out that they have about how they might have an influence on the world, because I guess here’s the bottom line:

You can always count on the sin nature being the sin nature and when you have a godless government like the communist Chinese government right now in control, we would expect them to think of ways to expand their power and expand their influence and even to take over other countries, and so this is something that we have to always keep an eye on in terms of other nations. I mean, Russia is the same way, and so we’re not living in a neutral universe. We’re not living in a peaceful neighborhood here. If the world is a neighborhood, we’re living in a place where we have to keep an eye on the neighbor across the street because you never know if they’re going to come and bombard you.

Todd: I think that that brings up a good point. I think of wars and rumors of war. It’s almost like you and I have just grown up with that nonstop and we’ve seen some wars that our country has had to be involved in with the Iraq War, and even before that, the Gulf War, and that kind of thing, but when it comes to like Russia and China or big, mega war, it’s almost like our generation is lulled into sleep, like, “Oh, that’s just always going to be a tension that’s there, but the different checks and balances will keep everything at bay,” but we know from Scripture, at some point, it breaks loose and in the tribulation, there’s clearly major war going on in the first set of judgments.But before that, and I promise we’ll end on a hopeful note, as we always do, this is some heavy stuff, but before that, whether it’s Ezekiel 38 or other areas, you’ve studied this well, the weakening of America, we see that happening before our eyes and something, you and I believe the main thing will be the Rapture, will have to weaken America to where it does not come to Israel’s aid in Ezekiel 38 and where it’s not a major end-time player. I mentioned all that because that’s part of the convergence that we’re talking about, but I’m leading to this question, because this is the question on a lot of people’s minds, and I hear two different answers to it, depending on who it is, and it’s this: “After 2020, will things ever get back to normal?” and I’m doing air quotes when I say “normal.”

Jeff: Well, it’s a great question. I am actually in the process of finishing up a new book right now, it’s called Aftershocks and it’s all about how are things going to change moving forward from a biblical prophetic standpoint and the book will be out in April of 2021, but I think it raises the question, Todd, because it’s on everyone’s minds right now thinking about, “Gosh, is this an egg that is so scrambled it can never go back again? I mean, are we ever going to be able to return back to certain normalcy of living and of what our country used to look like?”

To give hope is to say this, is to say that there’s always hope as long as there’s Jesus Christ and we know that Christ is here, He’s with us. It’s Jesus is like the door to the ark, to Noah’s Ark. As long as it’s open, then people can come in, and so the hope that we have to give to people is not necessarily the hope that our country is going to always be like it used to be, because it’s almost like Pandora’s box. So many things have been let out of the bag, let out of the box right now, to put them back in the box is going to create some problems, so we may have some tough days ahead of us.

I mean, this election that’s coming up, the left has promised revolution if Trump is elected. If Trump’s not elected, there’s going to be a whole nother kind of revolution that’s going to go on, so we’re facing challenging times, but as we mentioned in a previous episode, this is not something that believers are unfamiliar with through the centuries. If anything, we’ve had it kind of easy, especially in America, because we’ve been insulated by the fact that our country is a Judeo-Christian country.

I look at Jesus’ words in John 16:33 and He says this, He says, “In the world, you will have tribulation,” but then He says, Todd, “But take courage. I have overcome the world,” and to me, that is one of the things that just… I mean, it makes me what a flex my spiritual muscles, you know?

Todd: That’s right.

Jeff: Just to say, “Listen, Jesus has got this.” I don’t have to be afraid, and even if things do get worse in our world, the darker the night, the brighter the light, and the stronger that we need to be with one another in our local churches and with our families to stand up and to say “I’m here” to be a witness for Jesus as salt and light in this world, so there’s nothing but great hope on the horizon for us, even if times get rough, because Christ stands with us and He stands for us during these difficult days.

Todd: Amen. Well-put, man. I mean, best-case scenario, the Rapture is soon, and as we’re talking about with this convergence, all signs are pointing to all systems go, it could literally happen at any moment, and I pray it does, but I think psychologically, we also need to be prepared that He may delay a while. He loves people. He died to reach as many as possible, so from our perspective, we want it to happen yesterday, but from His perspective, He wants to reach as many people as possible.

In my gut, and this is more of a gut/prayer feeling versus specific Bible verse, I don’t feel like our country will ever turn back to how it was. I think it’s part of the end times weakening and falling away of the church and all the things that they sound really negative and they are in and of themselves apart from the fact that God has a master plan and the verse you shared, I love it, that He overcame the world.

Another one that comes to mind is just several verses similar to this, but where He says, “I will never leave you nor forsake you,” and even looking at Psalm 23 where way back when King David was penning some words, he said, “You prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies.” I think we talked about China. I think about the believers in China. I read an article today. This year alone, over 400, it was either 250 or 450 crosses have been removed from churches. China is ramping up persecution, but the underground church in China is exploding, and I’ve heard many believers from China when they’ve had the opportunity to speak to American audiences basically say in a nice way, “We’re praying that persecution comes to America because the church in America will explode if it does,” like we have it a little bit too easy here.Personally, I don’t pray for that. I pray for the Rapture, that’d be fine with me, but like you said, when we get to heaven, we can’t reach people for Christ, we can’t struggle for Him. We don’t work to get ourselves to heaven, but now today is an opportunity that we can work like we’ll never be able to for the rest of eternity. We can do what we were supposed to do at a time when it counts more than ever if we rise to the occasion, and I believe that day is today.

Jeff: I believe it, too, Todd, and I’m reminded of what, I believe it was the hymn writer, Fanny Crosby said, she said, “We’ll have all of eternity to celebrate our victories, but we’ll only one short hour before sunset to win them,” and I used to play sports. I look at life like the clock is ticking in the game and I believe we’re well into the fourth quarter. Don’t know where in the fourth quarter we are, but the clock is ticking and there’s going to come a day when the chance to earn rewards for Christ, the chance to reach people with Christ will be gone for me, and whether that’s today or 30 years or whatever, but I have to do today what I can do today.

Every person listening right now, you don’t have to have a podcast, you don’t have to have a Bible study necessarily. All you need to do is to be the person that God created you to be, continue to grow in Jesus Christ, enjoy God day by day and all the good things that He gives us in our lives, fervently love one another, and then just be that light for Christ. Don’t, don’t be a 10-watt light bulb for Jesus. I mean, be a full-on 100-watt light, be an LED light for Christ.Todd: That’s cool.

Jeff: Seriously, just be who God has created you to be and just know that even though we’re seeing a lot of things converging right now in our world today, what else is converging is the body of Christ, the remnant of the body of Christ, we’re converging together and we’re cluing in. I see believers doing this all the time, Todd, people are cluing into the fact that we’re in that fourth quarter and we have to wake up, we have to stand up, and we have to speak out.

Todd: I agree. I see that sense of urgency when we talk to different speakers and church leaders from around the world, even some that we’ve interviewed have talked about the urgency that they see around the world, so it’s not just Jeff and Todd sounding the alarms, the body of Christ, the awakened body of Christ. That’s paying attention to what Bible prophecy says and it’s listening to the Holy Spirit, clearly sense that we see the day approaching and that I love how you put it, Jeff, that we’re “deep into the fourth quarter.” That’s such a great way to put it. I just can’t help but to think that our listeners right now are also sensing that urgency and wanting to share.I’m going to do a quick little plug here. You and I have a little booklet coming out in October that is a great tool for them to use. It’s the top 10 questions about Bible prophecy and the Lord’s return. That is a very handy thing to use to give to people. It’s almost like a thick track. It’s a booklet, it’s bigger than a track, but it’s an easy read. People could read it. In a lunch break, they could probably read the whole thing, but you and I are trying to equip as many people as we can deep in this fourth quarter to have tools and to be able to have those conversations with people, and most importantly, model hope and show that how truly trusting in Christ and really studying Bible prophecy gives us that hope even though we see all this crazy stuff and the convergence of all this stuff we’ve talked about happening all around us.

Jeff: Absolutely. Absolutely, brother, and we’ll put a link on our website to this book, it’s a little $6.99 book, it’s a great tool to give away, The Quick Reference Guide to the End Times, and this’ll be a great opportunity for you to help spread some hope to some other believers out there and just know that everything is happening according to God’s plan. God is directing and he’s orchestrating history and no plan of His can be thwarted, the Bible tells us, and so He is in the heavens, He is doing exactly as He pleases, so all is well in heaven. No one’s panicking up there, no one’s pulling the fire alarm or dialing 911. God has got everything in control and not only does He hold the world in His hands, He holds you in His hands as well.

Todd: Amen. Thanks for joining us today. For more information about our ministries, visit prophecyprospodcast.com. There you can find more out about Jeff’s ministry and my ministry and you can even ask us any questions you want about Bible prophecy.