--- title: "Thread by @lsanger" source: "https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733102692728189333" author: - "[[@lsanger]]" published: 2023-12-08 created: 2025-02-06 description: "What is faith? Do you think a mere state of belief in a proposition is adequate? “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: t" tags: - "clippings" - "faith" --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733102692728189333) What is faith? 👇 Do you think a mere state of belief in a proposition is adequate? “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” (Jas 2:29) Who confessed in Mk 1:24, “I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God”? --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733103237513801910) “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.” (Gen 15:6) \*What\* was counted as righteousness: Abram’s belief that God exists, or his faithfulness (faith \*in\* God)? An acceptance of a proposition, or a loyal allegiance to a person? --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733103817011417130) How did God test Abraham’s faith? I’ll tell you: By straining his allegiance to God (against paternal feeling) to the utmost limit. The unclean spirit had a powerful conviction that the Holy One of God was there—maybe stronger than yours—but no loyal allegiance to him. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733104407955263957) Now ask yourself: by what am I saved? By a belief that some proposition about God is true? Or by loyalty to the very person of God? --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733106723316003095) Paul is also clear about what faith is. “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Rom 6:1-2) Faithfulness requires we show fruit. But our works are “filthy rags”: our allegiance itself saves us. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733111814299451540) You are saved by neither “a profession of faith” nor by your works. You are saved by your loyal allegiance, your faithfulness, to God—Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. You are indeed called and we would indeed be lost without that call to rally to his standard. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733114881249853687) But how will loyal allegiance manifest? By our good fruit, clearly, and by a certain doctrine, I suppose. How could you show loyalty without those things? But we are told that it is our faith, or loyal allegiance, that saves us. Have you too “kept the faith” (2 Tim 4:7)? --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733130837208535351) One last point. God gave Abram a covenant, as if he were his “liege lord”; the notion was based on ancient suzerainty treaties. The concept of loyalty is built in to such a covenant. Under the new covenant we are still expected to be loyal. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733148973085389071) OK, one more thing. Isn't faith "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb 11:1)? Yes. When God commands us to do something for which we might want evidence (think of Abraham and Isaac), our trust in him personally is our assurance. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733149510354808879) Hebrews 11 does indeed give us examples of propositions we are to "accept on faith." Does this mean we have faith in the propositions? No. We have faith in God, and in his word, and by trusting him, we have the confidence that evidence might otherwise supply. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733150049251565590) So it's still trust in and loyalty to God. Re-read Hebrews 11 and whenever it says "By faith," try substituting "By loyalty to God." Not only does the chapter still make sense, it makes much more sense than it did before. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733150742838440063) Trust in a proposition is not what "subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions" (Heb 11:33), etc. It was trust in \*God\* that did those things. Read the chapter again and tell me that's not what "faith" means in the chapter. --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733151360470688013) Look at the conclusion, after the list of OT martyrs who, "having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise" (of the Messianic kingdom). They obtained a good report through their belief in some doctrine? No! Through their self-sacrificing loyalty to God! --- **Larry Sanger** @lsanger [2023-12-08](https://x.com/lsanger/status/1733152256231387396) Greek πίστις, pistis https://biblehub.com/greek/4102.htm ![Image](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA1kyh_XMAAvTE5?format=png&name=large) ---